NYCPHP Meetup

[Cliff Hirsch]

On the flip side, I occasionally would like to outsource "pieces" but am
always nervous unless I have a REALLY concrete spec. And most often, by
the time I have written a spec to the level of detail required, I've
written the code. It would be wonderful to be able to hand over a
"fuzzy" spec. and allow the contractor to develop open-ended based on it
and an interactive process. Is there any way to do this without getting
royally screwed other than trust and faith?

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:12 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up!


Thanks for reminding me, kill his dog. :)

> Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up!
>
>
> Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a 
> customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you.  Here is 
> how you prevent this in the future.
>
> Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress 
> payments as you go.  this means you need a W-I-P server where you can 
> put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get.  If they 
> run into cash problems and want to slow down  you say "great", and 
> just leave it there until they come back.  If they want to hurry up 
> you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money.
>
> If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there 
> are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk:
>
> 1)  State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend 
> credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being 
> paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments"
>
> 2)  Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see

> what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress 
> payments if they don't like it.
>
> For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have

> to pay you, that you don't count.  Have your family attorney send them

> a letter demanding payment.  If that does not work your attorney can 
> escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter 
> saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down.
> HOWEVER,
> it is very important when  you pursue this legal stuff to know that it
> will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you
> must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate
> instead on new jobs and getting paid for those.  When this money comes
> in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus.
>
>
>> Hey Gals and Guys,
>>
>> I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I 
>> am
>
>> looking for a little advice.  I have a client that is being a pain.  
>> I
>
>> spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very 
>> nice in my opinion.  The client seemed very happy with the finished 
>> product as well.
>>
>> The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was 
>> supposed to pay the balance on delivery.  I delivered the site months

>> ago and have not received further payment.  The site is still active 
>> and it has been receiving alot of traffic.  They receive hundreds of 
>> visits a day and many users submitting information.  Needless to say 
>> they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it.
>>
>> The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over 
>> the past two months.  I am trying to figure out how to get him to 
>> acknowledge me and hopefully pay up!  I have a full time job as a 
>> Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the 
>> only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. 
>> Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of.
>>
>> Any advice?
>>
>> --
>> Tom O'Neill
>> tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>> AMP Technology
>> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP 
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> http://www.nyphp.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software
> 631-379-0010
> ken at secdat.com
> PO Box 708
> East Setauket, NY 11733
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733

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