NYCPHP Meetup

[Andrew Yochum]

Kenneth's advice is very sound and level headed.

I suggest always working under a written and signed agreement that
details:
    - scope of work (spec based, time based, etc.)
    - milestones
    - deliverables (both from you and from the client)
    - timeline (maybe rough)
    - rates (hourly, daily, etc.) & expenses (licensing, etc.) and how
      they're handled (pre-approved budget, approved on-demand, etc)
    - payment schedule (on milestones, once a month, etc.)
    - late (such as 5% penalty per month) & cancellation fees (they want
      to back out)
    - who owns the code and how/when ownership will be transferred
      (copyright transfer) or license to use will be granted
Sign it yourself and get them to sign it.

But this just helps you support your case if it should happen again.
I'd pursue Kenneth's suggestion of a lawyer, or small claims court.

HTH,
Andrew

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 06:59:49AM -0500, Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a
> customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you.  Here is how
> you prevent this in the future.
> 
> Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress
> payments as you go.  this means you need a W-I-P server where you can put
> the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get.  If they run into
> cash problems and want to slow down  you say "great", and just leave it
> there until they come back.  If they want to hurry up you say, "great" and
> ask for some more progress money.
> 
> If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are
> two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk:
> 
> 1)  State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit is
> very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, otherwise I
> cannot keep my commitments"
> 
> 2)  Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see
> what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress
> payments if they don't like it.
> 
> For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have to
> pay you, that you don't count.  Have your family attorney send them a
> letter demanding payment.  If that does not work your attorney can
> escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter saying
> they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down.   HOWEVER,
> it is very important when  you pursue this legal stuff to know that it
> will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you
> must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate
> instead on new jobs and getting paid for those.  When this money comes in
> after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus.
> 
> 
> > Hey Gals and Guys,
> >
> > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am
> > looking for a little advice.  I have a client that is being a pain.  I
> > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very
> > nice in my opinion.  The client seemed very happy with the finished
> > product as well.
> >
> > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was
> > supposed to pay the balance on delivery.  I delivered the site months
> > ago and have not received further payment.  The site is still active
> > and it has been receiving alot of traffic.  They receive hundreds of
> > visits a day and many users submitting information.  Needless to say
> > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it.
> >
> > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over
> > the past two months.  I am trying to figure out how to get him to
> > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up!  I have a full time job as a
> > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the
> > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend.
> > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of.
> >
> > Any advice?
> >
> > --
> > Tom O'Neill
> > tommyo at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software
> 631-379-0010
> ken at secdat.com
> PO Box 708
> East Setauket, NY 11733
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879