NYCPHP Meetup

[Kristina Anderson]

Tom -- 

The average corporate attorney makes $200K.  The average attorney in 
business for themselves makes about the same.  The average CPA, about 
150K.  The average doctor, electrician, etc. etc. etc...way more than 
we do.

The AVERAGE programmer makes, what, 80K if on salary?  (I'm self 
employed and the hourly rate I can get from the clients is pretty 
constricted by the market, and I'm trying to bust open that 100K 
barrier but it won't be busted...I'm still on the losing end.)

And you don't feel this is an ISSUE?  You don't honestly feel that the 
social status of the IT profession needs some improvement, that most of 
us are underpaid?

Come on, work with us.  

-- Kristina

> Guys, I have to be honest, this  "Webmaster test" and its associated
> threads are a train wreck for me.  I can't stop reading them, although
> admittedly I find them ridiculous.
> 
> I do believe in the saying, "if you don't have something nice to
> say..." which is why I haven't commented thus far, but if this email
> below is flamebait, then, well, you got me (and no, I'm not the type
> to fall for Rick Rolls).
> 
> "Connected with the low social status of IT"
> "I've got a PhD and I can't even manage a middle class existence?"
> "I see two things that suck about careers in IT:  (1) the pay"
> 
> Are you kidding me?  Listen, I don't know you or your status, but this
> is not the life I've lived through my career in technology or the
> perception I have of the industry, nor is it that of my friends and
> colleagues.  I mean no disrespect, but have you actually tried
> looking?
> 
> To be fair, IT is a very general term, and I suspect you might be in
> the more traditional definition of it, meaning corporate LAN support
> and the like.  But for web engineers, this should not be the case,
> despite the recession.  To be blunt, I have friends and colleagues
> with multiple offers, from the "big guys".  The recruiters are calling
> and messaging on the social networking sites daily.  So, to paint the
> picture that this field is disintegrating, or not really a profession,
> or whatever, to lurkers, newbies and veterans alike is just plain
> wrong.
> 
> As for that 3 comment I flagged, well, I do agree with the 2nd point
> you listed there.  That does suck.  But, then again, you see that in
> every industry.
> 
> And for those yearning for a life of state licensing and unions,
> please be careful what you wish for.  The same system that protects
> many also keeps many others out of work.  Ask a Long Island K-12
> teacher why they can't get a job even though they are at the top of
> their field.  Ask any contractor that has to compete on the lowest
> possible price because they are bound by law to do things a certain
> way with certain tools with certain procedures.  They've commoditized
> their industries and now can't differentiate themselves from others in
> their field.  And, when was the last time you saw any real innovation
> in those fields that made its way to us?  I'm still turning on the
> lights the same way my parents did.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:32 PM,  <paul at devonianfarm.com> wrote:
> > <rant>
> >     This is a continuity reboot of the "Webmaster test" thread.
> >
> >     I'm a member of the ACM,  although I don't know why.  There's a 
lot of handwringing in "Communications of the ACM" about the state of 
the IT job markets...  Is it expanding or contracting?  Why aren't more 
women in IT?  It sounds like "blah blah blah" to me.
> >
> >     You hear a lot of talk about the threat of outsourcing to US IT 
jobs...  The way I see it,  outsourcing doesn't cause unemployment for 
IT workers but it does lower our pay and it does lower our social 
status -- which is the point people don't talk about.
> >
> >     I see two things that suck about careers in IT:  (1) the pay,  
and (2) working for people who don't know what they hell they're doing.
> >
> >     I'm not going to complain about my current situation,  which is 
pretty much what I need at this point in my life,  but,  like a lot of 
people in IT,  I've worked at a string of crazy places.
> >
> >     IT jobs pay better than working for Wal*Mart,  but my brother-
in-law,  who works as a foreman on a construction site,  gets paid 
better than me -- despite the fact that I've got twice the education 
and skills that seem to be rare and in demand...  (It's always seemed 
that way no matter which side of the table I've sit at in job 
interviews)  Construction workers have a union,  but IT people don't 
work.
> >
> >     Last summer I was a contractor at a company that had a great 
culture,  great clients and was working with interesting and fun 
technology.  I got offered a job that had a big 401K (makes wall street 
rich) and the potential for a large bonus,  but no health insurance.  I 
mean,  I've got a PhD and I can't even manage a middle class existence?
> >
> >     The work I do takes as much training,  skill and independent 
thought as being a doctor,  a lawyer or accountant -- but I don't get 
paid accordingly and I don't get the respect...  For a while I worked 
at a place that hosted a talk by the author of a book called "Leading 
Geeks" -- could anybody get away with writing a book about "Leading 
Niggers?"
> >
> >     Connected with the low social status of IT,  there's the whole 
problem of taking orders from people who don't know what's going on...  
There are certainly some counterexamples...  Certainly some places that 
know what time it is,  but there's a reason why so many people feel 
like Dilbert.
> >  </rant>
> >
> >  ===============
> >
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> >  http://gen5.info/q/
> >
> >
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