NYCPHP Meetup

[guilhermeblanco at gmail.com]

Hi Justin,

Comments inline

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Justin Demaris <justin.demaris at gmail.com> wrote:
> One other feature that I would be interested in is friendliness to unit
> tests. Is it possible to easily set up faux-objects and pass them around
> without having them hit the database? Is it possible to use some of the more
> complex fetching and management operations without actually hitting a real
> database?

To play perfectly with unit tests, you can use another project under
Doctrine umbrella called DataFixtures.
It allows you to load fixtures and also reference things between the tests.

For a better support around not hitting unnecessarily the database,
Doctrine contains a concept called Proxies (which PHP needs years of
evolution until fully understand and implement a similar support of
interceptors of Java, which can benefit later), which creates
references to existing entities on DB, but not loading them until they
are actually needed.

>
> I had a debate on the values of data mapping vs active records a while ago
> with a coworker and from my understanding, data mapping isn't so much
> "completely different" from the active record approach as it is the next
> logical evolutionary step to support the needs of large application
> development. A lot of the ideas of data mapping have been filtering their
> way back into simpler ORM systems like Yii that still call themselves
> "Active Record".

People don't recognize that PHP sucks at memory management in OO.
No matter how much people complain about it, core doesn't focus into
paradigm in the language, they still want to do all and fail to do at
least one efficiently.
ActiveRecord can't be efficiently implemented in PHP due to that.
Creating records takes tons of resources, which was probably the main
reason why Doctrine 1 failed. You just can't load more than 10k
records. It's just not possible.
That's where DataMapper comes to play and solve most of the issues on this.

>
> Back to the point, how well does Doctrine 2 play with unit tests?

It's amazing! =) Try it and please come to talk about it here later.

>
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 9:43 AM, guilhermeblanco at gmail.com
> <guilhermeblanco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm one of the Doctrine developers and I can assure you the extra data
>> mapper you mentioned is easier than you imagine.
>>
>> There's a reason for that and that's probably what separates the tools
>> for creating simple websites to huge ones. One simple example is how
>> you map composite keys, how to deal with inheritance, etc. Trying a
>> very quick look to RedBeanPHP I couldn't see any of these support.
>>
>> Also, people tend to compare Doctrine 1 and Doctrine 2. They can't be
>> compared. The first one implemented ActiveRecord while the second is a
>> DataMapper. They are fundamentally different and the approaches are
>> completely different.
>> Lastly, you may miss the old behaviors that Doctrine 1 had, like
>> NestedSet, Sluggable, Timestampable, Translatable, etc. You can
>> achieve the same by incorporating an extension called Gedmo and
>> available at: https://github.com/l3pp4rd/DoctrineExtensions
>>
>> If you are using Symfony2, the integration is natural and
>> configuration is nearly to 0.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Agustin Casiva <casivaagustin at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I think that Doctrine is a good alternative, have several features.
>> >
>> >
>> > http://docs.doctrine-project.org/projects/doctrine-orm/en/latest/index.html
>> >
>> > Also have a version for Mongo as Backend
>> >
>> >
>> > http://docs.doctrine-project.org/projects/doctrine-mongodb-odm/en/latest/
>> >
>> > Another option is Propel, is more simple and fast but not so powerful
>> > like
>> > doctrine.
>> >
>> > http://www.propelorm.org/
>> >
>> > Best Regards
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Justin Demaris
>> > <justin.demaris at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Wow, that's pretty cool. My first reaction was pretty strongly against
>> >> it... anything that does database voodoo on the fly worries me, but it
>> >> allows you freeze the schema or even partially freeze the schema if you
>> >> are
>> >> working on adding new features, it has validation hooks, you can build
>> >> in
>> >> your own mapper, it has event listeners at key points and it looks like
>> >> it
>> >> wouldn't be that hard to adapt it to other data store styles.
>> >>
>> >> Impressive and thanks!
>> >>
>> >> ~ Justin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:28 AM, federico ulfo <rainelemental at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I suggest to take a look to red bean, is impressive how easy it is and
>> >>> right now has one of the most active community!
>> >>>
>> >>> http://redbeanphp.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On May 7, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Justin Demaris <justin.demaris at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Hello PHP Talkers,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > How do you guys feel about ORM systems and other database
>> >>> > abstraction
>> >>> > layers? I've been working a lot lately with an older version of
>> >>> > Kohana
>> >>> > (fun!) and doing a lot of performance optimization. A good chunk of
>> >>> > improvement has come out of removing reliance on the old Kohana ORM
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > replacing it with simple mysqli calls. Is there any ORM system out
>> >>> > there
>> >>> > that just does it right? Namely, I'd be looking for things like:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 1) When I instantiate an object by it's ID multiple times, it
>> >>> > doesn't
>> >>> > bother to hit up the database after the first time, but just keeps
>> >>> > giving me
>> >>> > copies of the same object
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 2) Lazy load the object values. There are a number of patterns where
>> >>> > I've seen people instantiate a bunch of objects and then only use a
>> >>> > small
>> >>> > subset of them. It would be nice if the object only loaded the data
>> >>> > when we
>> >>> > try to reference one of its non-ID properties.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 3) Ability to tweak the back end to work with other database systems
>> >>> > (especially Riak, Mongo and Cassandra)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I have had really good luck in the past working with Yii and
>> >>> > integrating with Redis to use their Active Record structure, but I'm
>> >>> > not
>> >>> > sure of the performance there. Also, I've been hearing a lot about
>> >>> > Doctrine
>> >>> > 2 lately and the necessity of having an extra Data Mapper layer in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > middle that separates the classes and properties from the fields and
>> >>> > tables
>> >>> > that store the data.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Let me know what you guys have experienced, and no pressure since
>> >>> > this
>> >>> > decision is probably going to affect my sleep and happiness for a
>> >>> > few
>> >>> > years!! ;)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ~ Justin DeMaris
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >
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>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ing. Casiva  Agustin
>> >
>> > Mail/Msn/GTalk/Jabber: casivaagustin at gmail.com
>> > Skype: casivaagustin
>> > CEL : 054-03722-15270639
>> > Site: http://www.casivaagustin.com.ar
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Guilherme Blanco
>> MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
>> GTalk: guilhermeblanco
>> Toronto - ON/Canada
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-- 
Guilherme Blanco
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
GTalk: guilhermeblanco
Toronto - ON/Canada