[nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
Kristina D. H. Anderson
ka at kacomputerconsulting.com
Wed Aug 26 15:37:47 EDT 2009
Rob -- what's really going on is this.
All of Wall street is looking for "that tech guy" who is going to do
everything short of part the Red Sea for them in terms of enabling
trading-area profits. The one who is exactly 27 years old, has exactly
a 3.8 GPA in the departmental area of the Ivy League university of
their choice and who will consent to working 120-hour weeks in a
slavepit with a bunch of animalistic traders, and who preferably will
rat out their previous employers' trade secrets after being hired, all
the while wearing a tie, for the "total compensation of 300K".
"That tech guy" is the Holy Grail for the technical recruiter, the one
they all seek ... for the commission payout on a 300k deal is, for a
technical recruiter, no small bag of chips.
So now it is late August, and a very slow part of the year in what must
have been a very, very dismal one for Wall street technical recruiters,
and frustration and boredom builds up while they wait for "that tech
guy" to show up, and some of that trickles down to us on our little PHP
jobs list, because we are not "that tech guy" but merely non-
commissionable or readily available knats buzzing around with the
temerity to protest the advertisement of cheap $8 an hour
outsourced "PHP engineering"...
I don't think we should take it personally. $100/hr, that must be the
consulting rate for "that tech guy"...?
Kristina
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
> Shahan,
>
> For some reason I just don't believe you. Sorry. Your email is
nonsense.
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> From: Shahan Avedian
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM
> To: Chauncey Thorn ; Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
>
>
> I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell
you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we
cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are
qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to
consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get
95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes
down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored.there are
other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being
offshored.
>
>
>
> Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer.cannot
tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job
unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay.its
not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the
same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need
a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop
viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over
the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand
there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views.
>
>
>
> SA
>
>
>
> From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-
bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM
> To: Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
>
>
>
> I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a
number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that
they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value
the profession.
>
> CT
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson
<ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced
> here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of
> knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other
> profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we
> do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone
> feels our work is worth "minimum wage".
>
> And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold
that "computer
> geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or
> that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are
> good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not
> all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or
> possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives
> toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*.
>
> This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of
> things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our
> field that would perform the core functions that they do in other
> industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to
> fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary
rates
> in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the
> MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever
> they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union
> programmers...or whatever the solution might be.
>
> I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by
> undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should
> be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and
> even potentially harmful.
>
> Happy coding everyone,
>
> Kristina
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who
posted
> the
> > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what
> employers are
> > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above
> minimum wage
> > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of
> the
> > state of the application after developed.
> >
> > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base
> price is 8
> > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure
> there
> > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why
> would we
> > want those types of Ads.
> >
> > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are
> willing to
> > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the
> NY is
> > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the
competition.
> > Nothing personal (and I mean that)
> >
> > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it
> said 8 -
> > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide.
> > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or
> developers in
> > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in
> NYC.
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle
<paul at devonianfarm.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Web wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends
in
> India.
> > >> Nor do I get work from India.
> > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP
> jobs. NEW
> > >> YORK!
> > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list.
> > >> Thank you,
> > >>
> > >>
> > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the
> dollar
> > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and
> encourage other
> > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services.
> > >
> > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there
are
> a lot
> > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to
> underprice
> > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US
> by about
> > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for
> people to
> > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst
> cases, you
> > > just get ripped.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chauncey Thorn
> > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> > url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chauncey Thorn
> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
>
>
>
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>
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>
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