NYCPHP Meetup

[nycphp-talk] PHP Object handling. A rant.

Edward Potter ejp at well.com
Sun Jun 2 01:44:12 EDT 2002


O gosh, just pass the value in a hidden field. It's fool proof right?

:-) e



charles at softwareprototypes.com wrote:

> Object oriented systems are notoriously hard to debug.
> 
> Smalltalks have excellent interactive debugging but that only works
> if the IDE is present. On packaged apps. you don't ship the IDE. If
> you do, the footprint becomes huge and your users have to be
> Smalltalk developpers who know what to do with a Walkback Window.
> 
> The only ones who have a decent handle on the process are IBM with
> VisualAge Smalltalk which is the same thing as saying OTI's
> ENVY/Developper which is the engine. The entire stack and all objects
> in RAM are serialized and streamed to a file when an application
> crash occurs. That's a lot of over-head for a crash and those files
> are huge and buggers to work with without the specialised tools.
> 
> What he's bitching about though, is the stateless nature of the web
> and the fact that the entire system and the application that he's
> working on has to be designed as a state machine which is forced to
> recoved its relevant state information at every invocation and which
> has to stuff its state information at every exit.
> 
> I say he's got it easy compared to programming in CICS or IDMS-DC
> where the problems of releasing every resource between invocation are
> compounded by a limit of 32k-words of memory per process.
> 
> Read a "Programming in Command -level CICS COBOL" for an
> appreaciation of the problem.
> 
> His beef has dick-all to do with object-orientation and everything to
> do with the fact that he doesn't know how to implement a state
> machine or handle dialog flow.
> 
> Ripping out the object-oriented code won't help him. His problem is
> that he's not thinking in objects so his logic flow is spanning
> object methods and he doesn't know what to do.
> 
> State machines are perpendicular to structure in the same way that a
> mobile is perpendicular to its hanging three dimensional structure or
> that a true aquatic ballet is perpendicular to the position of the
> swimmers in the pool. If you only look at the surface, you're missing
> the true dimension of the problem and can't get the point of the
> exercise.
> 
> The GUI is a state machine but only for the GUI. The rest of the
> objects implement their own state machines as required.
> 
> To wax poetic, as I once did in "The Hot-Line on Object-Oriented
> Technology" software development is like choreographing the dance of
> electrons in n-dimensions. This poor flat-lander has two left feet.
> 
> -Charles-A.
> 
> 
> 
>>From: Jerry Kapron <jkapron at NewAgeWeb.com>
>>Organization: New York PHP
>>Reply-To: talk at nyphp.org
>>Date: Sat,  1 Jun 2002 01:25:48 -0400
>>To: NYPHP Talk <talk at nyphp.org>
>>Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Object handling. A rant.
>>
>>Is it really that bad? ->
>>
> http://www.itchyfeet.org.nz/local/phprant.php
> 
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





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