NYCPHP Meetup

[Donald J. Organ IV]

I meant thanx Brian also, that was the first name the drew my attention but
like I said thank you to everyone that has responded both on and off the
list

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donald J. Organ IV" <dorgan at optonline.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] First Big Client


> Thanks Mark, everyone that has responded to the post, both on and off the
> list, I thank you every bit of information helps.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brian Pang" <bpang at bpang.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:11 AM
> Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] First Big Client
>
>
> > Mark's advise is very sage.
> >
> > Other things to consider are what you think they can afford and/or what
> > you can afford to do it for and whether or not there is likely to be any
> > follow-on work.
> >
> > To address what you can afford to do it for; i.e. how low can you go;
> > consider how it impacts your capacity to do other work that might pay a
> > better rate. If you have nothing to do, need the money and have no other
> > prospects, doing a project for "not very much money" is a whole lot
> > better than doing nothing for no money.
> >
> > I often am in the position to consider whether or not I will receive any
> > additional work from a client when I am pricing initial jobs for them.
> > If I am certain that it is a one-off, I will be far less inclined to
> > give them any price breaks to secure the business. If there is a good
> > chance that there will be more work coming from them, I will want to
> > develop the relationship and may consider giving them a lower or more
> > competitive price so that I can be a prefered vendor for them.
> >
> > One forty hour job at $100/hour ($4000) is not as valuable to me as two
> > forty hour jobs at $65/hour ($5200) with the prospect for more work.
> >
> > I have them over a barrel, I will usually give them my top hourly rate,

> > because, well, I can. Still, I won't overdo it and ask for $1,000/hour
> > because they never truly are over a barrel. There's always someone else
> > who can do it for $500/hour.
> >
> > In considering what they can afford, you have to examine who they are.
> > Are they off-broadway actors (notoriously poor) or lawyers (notoriously
> > well-to-do). Start-up or well-established? Don't price yourself out of
> > their range of affordability.
> >
> > Of course, if you can get them to divulge their budget, things get a lot
> > easier. If not, it can take a very keen sense to arrive at figures that
> > both parties are happy with.
> >
> > Always leave yourself open to discussion and review of the feature sets
> > and price. I try not to allow the client to go ala carte with features,
> > but often their original requests contain parts of the site that are
> > very complex to implement and have little ROI. Identify those things,
> > cut them out and give them a revised quote.
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the lengthy reply that doesn't directly address your question.
> > :) Hope you/someone finds it useful.
> >
> >
> > Regarding your pricing, you need to start by breaking down the list of
> > features into sub-components.
> > "Content Management" is way to large to consider on its own.
> >
> > Next, look at those sub-components and their details, then estimate how
> > long it might take you to implement (err on the high side, you'll be
> > glad you did later after returning to this list to seek additional
> > guidance).
> >
> > Add that all up, multiply by your targeted hourly rate and add 10%-15%
> > (this is easy to knock-off later in negotiations without feeling like
> > you're getting ripped off).
> >
> >
> > If I were to price this out (not knowing what's involved in "and many
> > other features...") I would be solidly in the 5-figures range
> > ($10,000-$99,000), maybe more. After all, you did say it was "custom."
:)
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > >
> > > Here are some [probably obvious] thoughts:
> > >
> > > I would suggest thinking _not_ in terms of functionality (e.g. Content
> > > Management, Groupware, etc.) but rather value.  Bluntly stated, what
> will
> > > the _output_ of all this stuff do for your client.  How much money
> > will they
> > > save?  How many more prospects will it uncover?  How much faster will
it
> > > increase their cash cycle?  In the perfect world, your invoice should
be
> > > only slightly less than the value all of these combined - the delta
> > being a
> > > function of client management...remember (pardon the crude analogy)
the
> > > difference between rape and making love is salesmanship!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok i ahve been developing PHP web application for a couple fo years
> > now but
> > > they have always been on a volunteer or personal basis.  Now I have a
> > client
> > > that wants a custom web application and I am not sure how much to
charge
> > > them.  So of the features that this web application included are:
> > >
> > > Contact Management
> > > Personal Appointment book as well as global appointment book
> > > Resume management
> > > meeting management
> > > admin features(Such as adding new users)
> > > Sending out template based email to well over 100 individuals
> > > dynamic word document creation
> > > and many other features...
> > >
> > > This system is replacing other application such as Goldmine, resume
> > grabber,
> > > and will also eliminate many steps such as sending emails in outlook.
> > >
> > > if anyone has an idea on how much something like this goes for please
> > let me
> > > know.
> >
> > <snipped a few lines here and there>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > talk at lists.nyphp.org
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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