[nycphp-talk] Cake v. Symfony

Kenneth Downs ken at
Sat Sep 9 11:05:43 EDT 2006

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> Maybe these PHP projects have achieved what was originally needed to
> basically propel PHP to an IT takes note status. 
Hmm, was it the projects, or was it PHP itself: simple, powerful, elegant.
> Now it may be time for new talents to focus on the next evolutionary
> competitive step and that would be to tie together, maximize, enhance and
> compound all these "generic" projects and spin them into very rich, full
> package commercial enterprise-wide solutions with a bit more out of the box
> readiness to meet the expectations of known market segments that need and
> buy full scale (verily even expensive and satisfyingly profitable) web
> application solutions.
Let me challenge this that perhaps it will be the old talents, those
with solid histories of delivering the goods, who may pick up PHP
because it will help them with their business goals of delivering
quality goods.

If so, they will already have established contacts and books of
businesses in the markets you mention below.  They won't be interested
in MVC, ORM, or the finer points of package distribution.  They will be
interested in delivering goods at a profit, as they always have been and
always will.

How do frameworks fit into that picture?  Or, how does the framework fit
into the picture of the larger realities of software development such as
incomplete specs, contradictory specs, impossible timelines, cash-flow
problems from slow-to-pay customers, arbitrary change requests, the need
for things that there never seems to be time for like testing,
documentation and training, and many others.

Any framework that begins by expecting the customer to adapt to the
programming model will fail.  Any framework that is not solidly grounded
in real-life projects will likely fade eventually.  And, perhaps biggest
of all, any framework that does not learn from the systems that have
come before, from COBOL to Foxpro and VB and Java, will be overtaken by
those that are built with a sober knowledge of what has come before.

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