[nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!

Jon Baer jonbaer at
Mon Jan 8 08:46:05 EST 2007

I think that people coming from procedural PHP tend to have a harder  
time getting into MVC styled programming.  Especially if a complete  
framework is the very next thing they look @ without OO programing.   
If you have gone from Java to JSP to Struts to PHP and onto Cake (and  
probably @ least checking out what that Ruby on Rails thing is about)  
you tend to appreciate it more.  I agree you need to set aside @  
least a good day for each part of MVC to understand what you are  
getting into, but when something breaks or you have to debug it won't  
take long to find.  Nearly every rant I've seen is mainly due to  
complete disagreement with the conventions used or is just a complete  
bikeshed issue :-)

- Jon

On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Marcin Szkudlarek wrote:

> I think that for every framework you need some time to learn it. After
> that time you're able to  get the benefits of using it. I spent few
> days learning cake (no problems with installation). Usually when I
> didn't understand how particular part works I just looked into the
> code.. it's the way I recommend for people struggling with Cake. What
> I mean in general is that you'll appreciate the benefits of using Cake
> after you'll learn at least at the basic level.
> Regards,
> Marcin
> On 08/01/07, Nate Abele <nate at> wrote:
>> Some get a kick from cocaine.  I'm sure that if I took even one  
>> sniff, it
>> would bore me terrifically, too.
>> Yet, I get a kick out of you.
>> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:08:41 +0800
>> From: "mikesz at" <mikesz at>
>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] CAKE Ain't Soup!
>> To: talk at
>> Message-ID: <45A07249.70100 at>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> In defense of Brian Daley's rant about CAKE and contrary to Nate  
>> Abele's
>> illness,
>> I believe Brian's point are well founded and justified completely.
>> As a complete CAKE novice, I knew/know nothing about Cake except the
>> misinformation that
>> is contained on their home page, i.e *"No Configuration* - Set-up the
>> database and watch the magic begin".
>> So I decided to check it out to see for myself what all the hype  
>> was about
>> so
>> after wading through a miriad of "give us money" I finally was  
>> able to
>> download the
>> package and attempted to install it on my local Apache Webserver.  
>> Give that
>> the installation
>> instruction are clear as mud, I attempted to install it like any  
>> other PHP
>> Application
>> but when I attempted to run it, I get  a "Your database  
>> configuration file
>> is  not present."
>> and a screenful of junk that tells me nothing about how to install  
>> the
>> product, except an instruction
>> that says, "run the install" but never says what that is.  
>> Installation
>> instructions, never mind documentation,
>> are suppose to be specific, precise and correct. Cake is none of  
>> the above.
>> Cake may be cake but it is certainly not soup!
>> Cake may be indeed a great leap forward but if you can not install  
>> it "out
>> of the box" no one will ever know.
>> I, personally, don't "shop around" for information that isn't  
>> where it is
>> "suppose" to be. That means that
>> Cake only had one shot to impress me, they did, negatively! All  
>> the whining
>> on the planet won't fix
>> an installation process that is fatally flawed.
>> regards, mikesz
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