[nycphp-talk] And the HTML CSS guru is....

Mark Armendariz enolists at
Fri Jan 12 13:08:46 EST 2007

I would actually say some of the finer designers I've worked with prefer
div/css because of the amount of control they're afforded and the speed at
which they can update their designs, especially for multiple formats, which
Rob mentioned.  Tables are easier for specific layouts, but I've seen css /
div gurus do Incredible things - without having to chop up images, worry
about columns and rows, and colspans and rowspans, etc.

Also, for us developer types, there's nothing quite like updating a template
that looks like this:


    <ul id="nav">

    <div id="content">

There is absolutely No Telling what this might look like.  It could have
Thousands of outcomes, but as the guy in charge of functionality, I don't
care about a single one of them.  The designer tweaks the style sheets, I
tweak the code (and insert template tags), and everyone's happy.

the html body is the perfect middle ground between the designer and
developer and should have As Little as possible from either.

On 1/11/07, David Krings <ramons at> wrote:
> David Mintz wrote:
> > This thread probably belongs on front-end but... no doubt but that
> tables
> > are for tabular data. There's a nice SitePoint book about kicking the
> > table habit:  Forms are the one
> > thing with which I haven't been able to get clean and sober, because
> > aligning all the elements with pure CSS -- at least for a non-guru like
> > myself, judging from the solutions I've seen and tried -- is a PITA.
> >
> >
> And that is the reason why so many people use tables for layout. CSS is
> all nice and pretty, but absolutely unusable from a design standpoint.
> Most people do well with visual design tools (table) rather than with
> detached and abstract descriptions of the design (CSS). I yet have to
> find a decent CSS editor that makes this whole nightmare into a dream. I
> tend to say CSS sucks, but that is plain unfair and incorrect. CSS is
> kewl, it is the lack of plain simple to use tools for CSS that get CSS
> to be sidelined.
> Just my 2 €.
> David
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