NYCPHP Meetup

[Kenneth Downs]

Ajai Khattri wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Kenneth Downs wrote:
>
>   
>> ... We accept the obligation 
>> to learn HTML, CSS and Javascript, and even a few things about HTTP 
>> headers and so forth, but we think it is optional to learn SQL and to 
>> treat the database as what it is.  That really puzzles me.  The only 
>> explanation I can come up with is people must be using really simple 
>> databases so that the inefficiencies at large table counts just never 
>> show up.
>>     
>
> OR
>
> I think what you're saying here kind of proves my point. HTML and CSS are 
> easy to learn no matter if you're a programmer or not. And in the OOP 
> world, JavaScript, Ruby, Python, C++, Java are all similar enough that 
> most programmers will find the learning curve fairly shallow. Learning 
> about database design, normalization and SQL is outside of both of those 
> worlds.
>   

It seems we are saying the same thing on a crucial point: SQL/RDBMS is 
not OOP.

It comes down to our different responses to that reality.  Your response 
is, if I may characterize it, /to cast the unknown in terms of the 
known./  The goal of all ORM projects is to make tables look like 
objects so they can be manipulated in known terms.

This seems to make great sense and to be wise.  I used to do this myself 
and thought it was a great idea.  I have since found that it is 
counter-productive, at least for me and the programmers I've worked 
with.  I have found a far more productive approach to be to /use each 
tool as it works best./  With this approach I would not treat a table as 
an object because a table is not an object, or a class or an interface!

I think that is where we differ. 

> Im not saying this is right or wrong, or that everything must be done 
> with an ORM layer always, but you can see where the friction gets 
> introduced. This is why, for example, migrations exist in Ruby on Rails.
>   

Agreed insofar as there is much personal preference involved in these 
decisions. 



-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010

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