NYCPHP Meetup

[Konstantin K]

Funny, but some (valid? fair? not sure) points about NoSQL databases:

http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/11/25/brian-akers-hilarious-nosql-stand-up-routine.html
accompanying slides: http://www.slideshare.net/brianaker/no-sql-talk



On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Peter Becker <peterbsemail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here here!  I think that context is everything and the points you made are
> spot on.....so why this huge interest in non-relational db's now?  I'd say
> it in 2 words Web 2.0 (well actually 1 word and 1integer).
>
> Could Facebook, Twitter and any of the others have any idea of what their db
> should look like or evolve to?  I doubt it, and so for these cases where the
> industry is not mature the non-relational makes perfect sense.  But for
> mature industries, then organizing the data with clearly defined attributes
> and organization will give the biggest bang for the buck to the business
> who's inevitably using it (and paying the bills).
> It'll be interesting to see as these new industries mature and the next
> generations have a better idea of what they'll be/need to do whether there
> will be a migration away from the non-relational...
>
> Anyway, just my 2 cents from a neophyte who knows just enough to be
> dangerous.
>
> Peter
>
> Gary Mort wrote:
>>
>> Ok, so since someone has been singing the praises of MongoDB, and others
>> have been mentioned, I figured I'd provide a contrarian view and see if you
>> can convince me otherwise.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of relational databases.  Have been using them since I
>> graduated from college in 1993, starting with DB2, followed with MySQL[and
>> boy was THAT interesting.  DB2 was always like 2 years behind all the neat
>> features in other relational databases.  Then I went to MySQL and not only
>> did it lack those features, it lacked a lot of what solid, dependable DB2
>> had!  And it was on purpose!  They deliberately choose to keep MySQL lean
>> and mean and avoid things like foreign keys, stored procedures, and such.]
>>
>> My experience is that almost any application can be broken up and thought
>> of as tables.  Especially in the business world, people naturally think in
>> terms of spreadsheets since the spreadsheet is king there.  And a
>> spreadsheet is nothing but a table.
>>
>> And by putting everything in well documented[ha ha!] tables with
>> consistent column and table naming schemes, even power users can use query
>> tools such as Navicat to build their own queries and reports easily.   So by
>> keeping everything in a well understood industry standard format, we lower
>> the skill level needed to access and create reports on the underlying data -
>> always a good thing since I personally hate it when someone asks me to
>> create a report on sales from last year "just like this other one except we
>> need to include wholesale prices",  There is no challenge there, no fun.
>>  Just pure grunt work.
>>
>> So all this talk of moving away from SQL makes me nervous.  Will cluefull
>> users still be able to envision the data so they can pull reports.  Heck,
>> are there even the user friendly point and click tools for them to do
>> so?[Personally I never use the query builder in Navicat and find it tedious,
>> but I know plenty of power users who CAN do that].
>>
>> To me, it looks like migrating to this new method of storing data will end
>> up "locking" the business data up in a format that raises the cost to access
>> the data.  It reminds me of the way Magentoo is designed, with those oh so
>> cool tables for storing field values without creating new table fields.
>>  Sure, it may make it easier to expand/change the system, but having to do
>> multiple joins to the same dang table to get different pieces of data makes
>> the data harder to get to for non programmers!
>>
>> My feeling on business data is that business data belongs TO the business
>> creating it.  Not to some programmer who is the only one who can access
>> it[or worse, to some company that stores it in a proprietary format and
>> won't allow the data to be exported!] - so at the moment, I'm not seeing
>> that sort of access for data in MongoDB.   Command line pseodo queries is
>> not enough, I want to know the data is easy to get out for a power user -
>> not me.
>>
>> --
>> ----
>> Hudson Valley Sudbury School
>> What GPL is for application users
>> Our school is for students
>> Help your children grow, change, and learn
>> Let your child direct, control, amend
>> Check out http://www.sudburyschool.org
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>