NYCPHP Meetup

[inforequest]

Jayesh Sheth jayeshsh-at-ceruleansky.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote:

> I come to this issue with very mixed feelings. I grew up in India - 
> the country that now strikes fear into many hearts because programmers 
> there  are happy to work at lower wages than people in America are. I 
> have recent seen (in business dealings) that when I mention India, 
> there is visible wince.


And least is some cases, the wince is due to a disagreement with the 
Indian *value system*. While we are aware of the homeless on our streets 
while we walk to our high-paying jobs, we are also aware that we have 
done alot to help them. I won't argue that we have done *enough*, but 
the average American knowledge worker can justify going to work and 
living a decent life, and many of them feel guilty about less fortunates 
and do try to help them with donations and support. Now when we see 
India and we see "knowledge workers" zipping along on motorbikes to good 
jobs, and outsourcing entrepreneur millionaires boasting of their 
castle-like compounds, with *extreme* poverty widespread, and many, many 
living with the relative equivalent of slaves in their families' homes, 
we judge them for their values. Golddiggers come to mind, and the 
Goldrush mentality. People who behave like that are often scorned. They 
are choosing to shop for Prada on the streets of a city world famous for 
street poverty. We are choosing to shop for Prada on streets famous for 
entrepreneurial opportunity (so famous, it is a target for anti-American 
and anti-capitalist terrorism).

Of course we similarly scorn our corporate theiven, overpaid CEOs and 
monpolistic robber-barrons. It is argued that theose people are not the 
norm, and many argue they are a necessary evil for a hierarcical system. 
How many stories can India produce where street poor from the lowest 
caste became jet-set millionaires based on their cunning, luck, 
ingenuity, and hard work? We can count hundreds of thousands at least... 
too many to try and count. If you say it is too soon, ok. But do we have 
faith that the Indian social system will encourage such equal 
opportunity? Our system is biased by corruption, and we had our 
robber-barrons, but our system is not (yet) systematic corruption.

You call it "the bright light of the Indian spring" and we know it as a 
spark. Unless nurtured carefully and with respect, it ain't gonne be a 
bright light of spring for long. When I see (and I do see) Indian 
outsourcing entrepreneurs hawking their cheap labor at every network 
meeting in high-tech North Jersey, I dislike them for their agressive 
gold-rush demeanor, and their detachment from the social issues. It is 
all about money for them. Will I do business with them? Yeah, the next 
time I want to do business that is all about money (PS: I never do 
business that is all about money).

> Then I come back to New York - to this economy. It is still a bit 
> slushy  in March - the grey snow does not seem to have fully melted 
> (at least not in my mind). I seem to catch the glare of another angry 
> New Yorker out of the corner of my eye. And then it hits me: I am 
> another bitter New Yorker myself.
>
Yup.. happens to the best of us. That early April snow makes quite a 
mess on New York streets. Books have been written about the New York 
rudeness. Look up the Kitty Genovese story and re-hash that pop psych 
stuff, or go visit China and see how society handles being even more 
crowded than NYC, with the addition of an oppresive culture-control 
government. It certainly makes poetry harder to understand, but the 
beauty is still in there, sometimes richer than ever -- you have to know 
how to find it.

> I recently posted a help wanted ad on Craigslist for an internship 
> with a modest stipend ($500 per month). I got over 100 responses, some 
> from people with MBAs and Computer Engineering degrees.

And I went to graduate school with Indian students who already had 4 and 
5 Master's degrees, working on their next. I went with Taiwanese 
students of "Environmental Engineering" who earned top grades yet had no 
interest at all in anything but the computer business. Would I hire 
someone who had 5 Master Degrees? Nope. Would I hire the guy with a 
passion for the computer business, if I needed an environmental 
engineer? Nope. What's the point? I don't know many managers who would 
hire someone off Craig's List. If that's where you compete, good for 
you. But do you really expect to find top people advertising on Craig's 
list for $500 internships?

> If it's the market meeting out the justice, then justice is already at 
> work - if qualified people in New York are willing to work for $500 
> per month, then India has just been out priced. There is too much 
> demand for people who speak English well there - so much, in fact - 
> that their market cannot catch up fast enough.

It's not the market (yet). It's an entrepreneurial experiment on a large 
scale, feeding the low end of demand for anonymous workers. It will 
correct, and then we will see what fits where.

> For the last one hundred years, America has seen a dramatic growth in 
> prosperity. Perhaps now it is time for other nations to stake their 
> claim at the same thing.

Yawn.

It's not a serial game, and America has not the monopoly. Now if you 
want to adjust your culture and >1 billion person consumer markets to 
mirror ours (I think they call it "westernizing") then hey, guess what? 
Your  consumer market starts to look just like ours, and we can sell 
into it and perhaps even dominate it! Woohoo! But are consumer markets 
everything? What about ancient Greece and Rome, Egyptia, other former 
leading civilizations? Are they remembered for their Coke's, their Big 
Mac's, and their Chia Pets?

Very interesting stuff for a PHP talk list, for sure. I've got a 
free-as-in-software beer for Jay any time he wants to claim it.

-=john