[nycphp-talk] Why IT Sucks
Kristina Anderson
ka at kacomputerconsulting.com
Thu Apr 17 10:45:25 EDT 2008
To clarify two things re: the below response:
1. I most definitely DO NOT WANT TO LEGISLATE pay scales for
programmers (not even sure where anyone got the idea that I did!). I
feel we need to improve the SOCIAL STATUS of the field, so that market
rates increase in and of themselves.
2. I cannot "quit my job and find another one", because I'm self
employed. Me is counting on me to show up for work!! :)
-- Kristina
--------------------
> "I want to be a programmer. I just want to get paid what my skills
> are WORTH as a programmer."
>
> As a hobby economist I have to respond to this one. :D
>
> It sounds to me like you'd like to legislate what you're worth. That
> approach causes even more problems than it solves because it means a
> lot of people who could be employed at lower rates will now be
> unemployable, period. We are all worth what the market says we're
> worth. If demand for talented developers is high, and supply is low
> (as I've seen here in NYC) then you'll be paid handsomely. If demand
> is low, and supply is high, then you'll be paid very little.
>
> If you believe you are worth more than you're currently getting - than
> quit! Find another job that pays you what you're looking for. I know
> from experience that there are 100k+ jobs out there for *good* PHP
> developers (granted, it's my personal belief that it takes a little
> more than just developer skills to hit that mark, but they *are* out
> there).
>
> Dictating by government fiat what a "programmer" should make only
> exacerbates the problem by leaving all those sub-par developers out in
> the cold - completely unemployable in their industry. With that
> prospect, average developers will never even have the chance to become
> above-average.
>
> - Brian D.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Kristina Anderson
> <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote:
> > Tom, like a lot of the folks on this list, I'm a PHP programmer
> > developing internet applications (coding forms, building MySQL
> > databases, meeting with clients to determine requirements, etc.
etc.).
> > I've been doing this (in different languages and platforms) for 10
> > years and in PHP for the past 2 years (and love PHP!). I do this
for a
> > living because I like doing it, I'd probably be better off in
> > retirement if I went to law school in the near future but I don't
want
> > to do this. I want to be a programmer. I just want to get paid
what
> > my skills are WORTH as a programmer.
> >
> > I'd love to charge my clients more. And I've recently gotten wise
to
> > opportunities where clients are able to offer me part ownership of
> > startups in addition to hourly consulting rates. But...I do think
that
> > clients price things out and give bids to people who charge
reasonable
> > rates. There is a reason I get 90% of the projects I bid on. If I
> > asked for $100 an hour, that would be great, but $100 an hour for 0
> > hours is, well....zero dollars.
> >
> > As a self employed person I'd love to hear any real, usable
suggestions
> > on how to increase income. My network is great and I have tons of
> > projects going, business is growing every day as I meet new
> > people...but the market does price at a certain level and if I
start
> > asking for more than people can afford, or more than others with my
> > same skills are getting paid...I am not going to get hired.
> >
> > Your libertarian jawflap about how Social Security is "hurting
us" (I
> > disagree) and how the market is totally open for me to charge
whatever
> > I want are well...interesting theory and pretty typical politics
for a
> > certain segment of the IT industry...but. And saying I "look to
> > others" to "solve my problems" is beyond a low blow, it's just too
> > stupid a remark to even rebut.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kristina
> >
> >
> > > Hi Kristina,
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Kristina Anderson
> >
> > > <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > > Tom --
> > > >
> > > > The average corporate attorney makes $200K. The average
attorney
> > in
> > > > business for themselves makes about the same. The average
CPA,
> > about
> >
> >
> > > > 150K. The average doctor, electrician, etc. etc. etc...way
more
> > than
> > > > we do.
> > >
> > > I have what I consider to be more than average experience with
> > > electricians and they are nice folks, but hardly what I'd call
on the
> > > top of the "social status" scale and I would question what the
average
> > > salary was, but I doubt your numbers.
> > >
> > > Really, I doubt your "average". But it doesn't matter. You
make what
> > > you do because that is what you are willing to work for.
Suppose the
> > > floor fell out of IT tomorrow (literally), and the going rate
for PHP
> > > was $10 per hour. Would you still do it? Maybe for fun, but
not as a
> > > job. Why? Because you won't work for that little. You couldn't
> > > survive. But you can survive on $80K (or whatever), so you do
it.
> > > When you decide that $80K isn't enough, you'll stop working for
that
> > > much.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The AVERAGE programmer makes, what, 80K if on salary? (I'm
self
> > > > employed and the hourly rate I can get from the clients is
pretty
> > > > constricted by the market, and I'm trying to bust open that
100K
> > > > barrier but it won't be busted...I'm still on the losing end.)
> > >
> > > Look at your market. The "big" consulting firms charge much
more and
> > > pay their people much more. How come they are getting it and
you are
> > > not? That's the question you need to ask. You shouldn't be
looking
> > > for protection from the marketplace, you should be looking for
ways to
> > > excel in it.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Come on, work with us.
> > > >
> > > I am, really! I'm telling you to not look to others to solve
your
> > > problem - it won't help. Look at things Social Security and
pension
> > > plans. These systems put the burden on others - and they both
have
> > > severe flaws which are hurting us now.
> > >
> > > Look at what you can do to excel. How are your sales efforts
> > > (speaking for myself in my experience as a consultant - I always
> > > dreaded sales, but recently realized that it needs to be
embraced, not
> > > feared)? Professional networking? Who is your customer? Are
their
> > > pockets deep enough? Are you really taking advantage of your
> > > expertise (are you doing graphics when you are really a DBA at
heart)?
> > > How can you get the work done faster? Can you invest in tools
(store
> > > bought or that you create) to help? Invest in services?
People? Can
> > > you reuse code? Are you tracking problems so that you don't
make the
> > > same mistake again?
> > >
> > > There are answers, but no one just pays more for your
services "just
> > because".
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> realm3 web applications [realm3.com]
> freelance consulting, application development
> (917) 512-3594
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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