[nycphp-talk] PHP hosting and standard tool-chain for newbie?

Peter Sawczynec ps at
Thu Apr 23 16:16:22 EDT 2009

This list tends to beat up on Dreamweaver all the time. But, note I am
not suggesting that Dreamweaver is to be used to code or manage complex
PHP web applications. 

But for creating web sites / web pages, I have not come across a better
turned out user interface than Dreamweaver.

I go and look at all the free/shareware/opensource/commercial
(semi-graphical interface) products every year or so. I download,
install with all my wits and calculating nerve, then grippingly study
the vast overload of poorly documented competitive plugins that all do
some of this or some of that, then I install the plugins and then I go
and get the dependencies for the plugins (and discover the odd bit of
code has not been updated since '05 and was never made for my operating
system and was unstable the whole time anyway); then I install all the
exotic stuff -  which you will need to do - don’t think you won't - to
really shape up the product's user experience and then it still isn't as
singularly cohesive and organized as Dreamweaver. And now you have to
study forums and foreign language blogs deep into the night and the next
morning to look for answers that only obliquely address the yet
unsolved, undocumented quirk that stops you now. 

I have sampled the dedicated XML tools, specialized CSS editors (which
you will rarely - almost never - need if you know your CSS yourself).
Yep, Tidy is great but frankly I only needed it one time 5 years ago. 

Don’t get me wrong I can hand code and yes I can perform at the command
prompt too with a little UNIX cheat book at my elbow. 

But, dude, I am telling you that other than in this narrow very vertical
world of hard corps programmers; I have never been in an agency or
studio or talked to another contemporary web slinger (and by a web
slinger I mean someone who also actually uses and programs Flash, let's
say) where I ever heard the word Eclipse or BBEdit or, OMG, Notepad get
mentioned as a serious tool of the trade. Not even in the most dark back
room data center with dust clogged cables running in and out of routers
and across coffee stained carpet, nope not even there.

Dreamweaver is the de facto web design product used out there everywhere
in the cold free world. 

And one should learn it first and then decide personally and only when
knocking out a job (under pressure and while commuting) on your PDA
souped up with a web server and MySQL database. Then maybe you gotta
program in Notepad. 

Viva Adobe mis amigos who went from a great company to a cool great
company when they bought Macromedia out from under Microsoft.

Warmest regards, 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
ps at 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at [mailto:talk-bounces at]
On Behalf Of Michael B Allen
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:16 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP hosting and standard tool-chain for

2009/4/23 Peter Sawczynec <ps at>:
> A very plausible beginner production style:
> 1) Photoshop.
> Design original site in Photoshop.
> a) Photoshop has a learning curve, but once mastered sites that start
> Photoshop and use all the great styling and layering tools come out
> looking more custom, unique and artistic. Plus, once Photoshop
> is gained, those skills overflow into the ability to handle all
> imagery manipulation needs both for personal and professional use.
> b) Photoshop has Save for Web feature that can be set to a custom
> that includes XHTML, images, divs and layers positioned with CSS.
> 2) Dreamweaver.
> Handle site updates in Dreamweaver.
> a) Dreamweaver has very sophisticated point and click interface,
> excellent autocompletion, properties inspector, and code hints. Plus,
> one can set up "websites" to catalog assets and have site updating,
> where Dreamweaver automatically sends all new changes and needed
> via FTP up to the actual site.
> This site allows you to buy very deeply discounted fully licensed
> software as long as you or someone in your family can prove you are in
> any kind of school.
> Excellent academic pricing, as far as I have experienced. Go look at
> Adobe Suite prices there.

She's not looking to be a career developer. She's just doing this for
kicks at this point so I really need something free.

Is there a standard "Free" and "free" tool-chain?

> See this site for a ton of free online video tutorials that will be
> especially useful to a newbie.
> (You need to look hard for the freebies but they are there.)
> For some lowest price web hosting on a shoestring with decent 24 hr.
> tech support and plenty of online admin tools that will especially
> educate and challenge the novice, you can just try GoDaddy. $4.99 per
> mo. gets Linux, MySQL (4 or 5), and PHP (4 or 5), plus a ton of very
> popular opensource projects (blog, photo gallery, etc.) that one can
> "turn on and install" from the admin interface and then explore those
> too.

Perfect. That definitely fits my budget.

How does GoDaddy compare to HostGator?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at
[mailto:talk-bounces at]
> On Behalf Of Michael B Allen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:49 PM
> To: nyphp
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP hosting and standard tool-chain for newbie?
> Hi,
> A young family member has a domain that I used to host until I started
> doing real business with credit cards and such at which point I had to
> shut her down. So now I'm wondering if I can find somewhere cheap to
> host her site where she can mess around with PHP and web design.
> What do you recommend for cheap PHP hosting?
> Also, what is the standard tool-chain for developing your HTML, PHP,
> JavaScript and then uploading it to your site? I use vim, tar and scp
> glued together with shell scripts but for her I'm hoping for a really
> simple point-n-click experience.
> She uses a Macbook.
> Mike
> --
> Michael B Allen
> PHP Active Directory Integration
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